538: Behind The Scenes Of Building Out A Marketing Strategy From The Ground Up With Heather Shannon
On today’s podcast, I am thrilled to have Heather Shannon joining me! Heather is a certified sex therapist who helps people understand their sexual identity and navigate their relationships. Heather recently participated in my program “Launch Your Funnel Live”, where we focused on creating an effective marketing strategy to attract more clients. During our conversation, Heather shares her background and business journey, transitioning from a therapist to a coach. She also highlights her struggles with marketing and finding a consistent strategy to bring in new clients.
Marketing is an ongoing journey, and it’s essential to embrace the process of learning, testing, and refining. Heather’s story is a testament to the importance of staying persistent and open to change in order to succeed in the long run. Join us as we dive deep into her experience in “Launch Your Funnel Live”, the challenges she faced, and the valuable lessons she learned along the way.
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READ THE EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Emily Hirsh
Hello Heather Welcome to the podcast.
Heather
Well hello I’m very excited to be here and hopefully share something helpful with people.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, I’m so excited to have you um all right? Let’s kick things off with you just kind of sharing a little bit about you and your business so people have that background before we dive in.
Heather
Yeah, for sure. So I am a certified sex therapist. I help people figure out you know who they are as sexual beings and how they want to show up in their relationships. Um I also host a podcast called Ask A Sex Therapist and um yeah I was in the webinar funnel or I did the webinar funnel in your program. So Um, it’s ah it’s been a really good learning experience for me.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, I’m excited to pull out and talk with you. I haven’t talked with you since launching your funnel live besides a few Instagram dms so I’m excited to get the debrief. Um, okay, cool. So I’d love to start with kind of Walking me through your marketing experience and where you were at before joining launch your funnel live. I know I do remember you had participated in something that I did beforehand and just yeah I would be curious what you were struggling with kind of What your decision-making process was in joining launcher fund alive and what you needed.
Heather
Yeah that’s a good question. So what had been going well was like once I got people on calls a lot of them signed up for my programs. I was like okay but how do I get more people and calls and even though I’ve been a therapist and I’ve been self-employed for a long time. You know I had changed so much about my business model. So I stopped taking insurance and I stopped offering one-off sessions. You know I decided even though I’m licensed to work as a coach and do packages and you know. Through your program I actually figured out how to add more value to my package which was a great thing too. So it’s like things just kept changing that it was almost hard for me to figure out. Um, you know what to focus on you know and and actually since recording I have diagnosed myself with Adhd so I think I think that. Also part of the issue where it’s like I can be a little bit all over the place you know and obviously you notice that like I do execute things well but sometimes like the focus is tough and so I was like I would just love to have somebody who knows this so like my brain hasn’t doesn’t have to do all that work of you know, putting it together and I could just Focus on executing. Yeah yes, thank you so much.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and kind of be told do this do this do this would you did a great job with that kind of experience. Yeah yeah, um, okay, so just so I have the backstory like how long have you been in business. I Don’t think I know they answered it.
Heather
12 years, a long time.
Emily Hirsh
And how long since you made the decision to like shift from therapist to coach. Okay, okay so less than a year since that decision.
Heather
That had kind of been gradually shifting but like it actually wasn’t until September of last year that I was like I am 100% coaching only now. Yeah in the yeah and the packages maybe even more recent maybe just since like early this year
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, so a lot of you’re in the phase of a lot of like trial and seeing what works and seeing what doesn’t Okay, and yeah, totally and how many clients had you brought before joining launcher funnel live into the coaching only package. Yeah.
Heather
Yeah, yep, it’s very different. Yeah. I Mean a handful, not not a ton. Yeah, so it’s kind of like.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and so you’d say coming in to launch your funnel live like your biggest issue is having an exact kind of strategy customer journey to take leads and turn them into calls and then into sales. Yeah, and that was your biggest kind of need coming into the program.
Heather
Huh exactly. Yes, I was like I need a consistent way to bring in clients. Yeah.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and before coming in, have you tried things that didn’t work or maybe something worked a little bit. What was that experience like?
Heather
Yeah, there were a lot of things that kind of partially worked. Um, not so much with the packages but even just since quitting insurance and you know it’s like so different when you’re asking someone for like a $30 copay versus even 200 something a session versus now like a few thousand dollars for a package like it’s just so different. Um, so I had done Google ads when I just stopped taking insurance and I was still doing session by session. That was kind of like a partial fit I think what I realized along the way trying to work on publicity. You know, um, launching the podcast you know so there’s all these different things. So many of them take so long and it was like okay, but like if these are all like long term games like what’s going to work in the short term so that was also kind of a conundrum.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and you did launch your podcast which is definitely a long game. It’s not going to lead to instant you know clients and so okay, that makes sense cool. Um, okay, and so I think we got to kind of your biggest struggle with your marketing up until joining was that consistent strategy and being told like.
Heather
Um, yeah, right? Yeah. Right? hundred percent right
Emily Hirsh
Tell me exactly what to do and then I’ll go execute it and kind of create that bigger picture strategy. So love it. Um, let’s dive into the experience in launcher funnel live so for a backstory of people listening Heather was like the a plus student In in launch funnel live. She also decided to do 2 funnels during the experience but they did go together. So I approved it. It wasn’t a loss of focus but it was a lot of work and you showed up to all the calls and you had I think your VA helping you Through some of it but you executed you followed it to a t and you really like put in the time put in the work. So I want to dig into your experience in that because you definitely like went through our process of each step each week. What to do and followed it really well. So yeah, what? What did you learn Through that process and what kind of surprised you let’s dig into that.
Heather
Yeah, so I think what I learned was um, there’s a lot to it and I think what you’re so good at is the strategy piece and like helping people figure out like these strategies are appropriate given what you’re selling you know in terms of products or services and so it was like okay, cool. So it’s like partially narrowed down for me. And then it was trying to figure out. You know what do I think could work or what’s feasible for me to you know, implement and execute and something I feel semi comfortable with um, there was there was more to it with the emails than I realized I was like oh this is there was a lot of see no um but. And I think what was challenging too is like making it my own. So like we had templates for everything you know I think you did a really nice job of you know, laying things out and having like a very clear sequence. You know where we start with who is your ideal customer and like what is your messaging before you even. Go into implementing things. So I did have that in mind. Um I think then I’m trying to remember the order of things. Um, but I know that we had to pick our funnel like what type of funnel we’re going to implement and kind of you know, got some support around that and we’re able to kind of bounce some ideas off of you know you and post in the Facebook group and that kind of thing. Um, and then we also you know aside from the emails the other big part of it was you know landing pages and and figuring that out and you know you were nice enough to give me your fancy design templates because I’m a design snob also and I was like oh but hers are so pretty so that was nice. Um, but yeah, it’s a lot of pieces. You know and it was one of those things where it’s like when you sign up for it. It’s like okay, six weeks seems like plenty of time and then you’re in it and you’re like oh my god is so much even with the help and support you know, but it was good and I think I was very committed at the beginning to like um This is something that you know is important for my business in the long run if I really want to grow and scale at some point to have a funnel where I can you know drive traffic and eventually do paid ads to it. So yeah.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and so if you remember like the first week was that messaging work and I know every time like I never really sell people on that. It’s like We don’t really include it in our sales material because people don’t think they need messaging work. But what was that first week like for you where I had you guys go through those exercises.
Heather
Um, oh my god like I mean it was great and if anything when I finish I’m like they could do two weeks on that like that is so crucial and. And that’s actually something I realized more after the fact when I was like oh my I was not clear enough. You know and I I think I reached out to you about that afterwards too and I was like shit like I have to keep working on this. You know this is like a process and so it was really helpful to see. Here’s what it looks like to put all the pieces together here’s what all the pieces are. I probably didn’t even know here’s what all the pieces are before being in the program and so now it’s like okay here’s all the pieces here’s how they fit together now. It’s this ongoing process of tweaking and refining to make them work together.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and most people yeah when I get to the messaging most people are like oh I didn’t even realize like I thought I was ready to dive right into the strategy and there’s so much that needs to tap into the messaging and I know Throughout that process didn’t you get some clarity or ideas around your offer that we went back and forth on. Let’s talk about that a little bit like how did that clarity come to you.
Heather
Yeah I did yeah it was great because on the exercise I Really liked that exercise where it was like go through I mean in my case, it was go through client intakes you know. And so luckily I had a lot of that data already. So I could just go back Like what did people say when they first reach out to me like what did they say their problem was what did they say their goals were and so I was able to kind of you know do a little analysis of what were the common themes and people who actually did sign on with me and I did come up with some and then you I liked what you said about Come up with like the micro problems. You know like what’s the little itty bitty things and so I came up with like 27 you know micro problems and you were kind of like can your offer solve all of these is like how valuable can you make your offer and I was like ooh that’s challenging, but it did get me. And it got me to realize like I had been wanting to develop a little bit more of an online course component to my coaching package for a while because I realized you know I want to kind of hit it hard in sessions with people and really do like the deeper healing work with people as opposed to. Repeating you know here’s what internal family systems is which is you know the approach that I predominantly use with people or here’s what got me communication skills are and here’s what I’m meaning like kind of like some of the jargon some of the like tips and techniques and I’m like that can all be prepackaged like people can watch that on their own time. And then they come to me and they’re like ready to go so that kind of helped me not only kind of add more value but also get them results faster and so those were 2 things you emphasized in that part.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, yeah, and for context to people listening um the exercise that I had everybody do and is a core part of what I teach is actually inspired by Alex her mosey which I think I had the group also I recommended read his book before we started. Which is where you list out 25 problems but very specific problems micro problems that your ideal customer struggles with and then you make sure you’re solving those within your offer and so usually what happens is people do that and they realize oh I haven’t dug deep enough. In exploring these and it’s the foundation of everything we do because if you remember then we go into the next week and we go into the funnel and the copy and I’m like constantly like go back and reference those problems that’s going to drive your copy that’s going to drive your email angles and so it’s super critical exercise and it takes time I remember I think Sidra who was in there was like I feel. Like I just got my MBA or something that week she’s like I worked so hard I didn’t even work this hard in college. So yeah, it was a lot of work. Um, but you dug into that and then that oftentimes gives people ideas around. Oh I’m not solving XYZ problem within my offer. And then that leads to changes and adjustments. So um, yeah I wanted to give that clarity and then next thing I would love to know is just what was the biggest struggle that you had throughout the process
Heather
Okay, so I think I think the biggest struggle was at the end like so when I when I messaged you on Instagram and I was like nobody bought my offer you know and it was like this very emotional moment where I was like you know I don’t know if I’m allowed to swear in here but I was just like I often did all this stuff and I And why did it work and blah blah blah and you know and it was like now I have a different perspective where it’s like you know I I improved my offer I learned what the whole process is and and then there was sort of this fear of like. How do I Even know where I went wrong and how do I kind of analyze that and so I did actually got feedback from someone in the group where we did kind of a swap with each other and reviewed each other’s materials and that was actually wildly helpful. Um, so she went through like all of my email sequence and I had a couple other Um, like kind of more experienced professional people go through it too And basically what I realized was I still found a way to not be focused. You know it was like I’m doing this work on your inner spark you know, but it’s also about your spark with your partner and then people are like is it for married people. Is it More of your libido is it the Spark Width and I was like oh I see now I see no unclear this what it’s you know that’s what I realized now. Yeah yeah.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, yeah, but then it’s impossible to actually get to that clarity without going through the process and I think that’s so important is like You more often than not will go through this the first time and then not see the exact results that you want and then have to go refine it and so the reason too I was excited to have you on here is like we haven’t connected as much after that, but you stuck with it and that’s That is the differentiator to success is like you have to almost plan on your business and marketing not working that first time and then come back to it but it’s not easy to do that. So tell me about that and then we can go back to a little bit of like the program experience. But Basically Heather built a webinar funnel and then at the end of the six week experience her webinar was pretty much the thing and so she had people on it but they didn’t buy. It didn’t turn out exactly how she wanted and we talked to Instagram and I was like keep at it like I know it sucks here’s what you’re gonna do. Yeah, so but what tell me how it’s been since then and kind of what you did with that information and and yeah.
Heather
I appreciated that you were like so responsive on Instagram and that you’re like you have to keep going and I was like this’s never going to work and now I’m kind of like ok yeah, you just kind of keep going. Um and once I got the feedback. It’s like oh this is what it looks like to keep going. It’s like you have to then figure out why it didn’t work or at least hypothesize. So to be able to get that clarity was super helpful and then the other piece the other piece that was nice about the program too is like you gave us benchmarks and sometimes like when you’re out there trying to do something on your own and you’re not someone who’s like seasoned and has done this a million times you have no idea what the benchmarks should be for your specific. Niche for this specific type of webinar based on you know your email size list size and all of that so that was really helpful and so I was able to realize that the click-through rate on my emails was like really nowhere near what it should have been so I should have gotten a lot more people um, clicking on the webinar part of it. Was probably the copy and the messaging not being super clear but there was also a pattern of really none of my emails were getting the click through rate that they should have gotten and so since then I’ve realized um shorter emails are working way better for me like I sent an email out today. Um, about my first podcast sponsor actually which is super fun and exciting. Um, but it was pretty short and it was to the point and it was offering something valuable and I was like oh my gosh only like half the list has even seen it and I’m already at .8 click thru rate which is higher than average. So it’s like um. Okay, like I can figure this out So I do think it’s so so so important for people to just like when you’re at that really low emotional moment and you’re just like nothing’s gonna work to just like keep going and be curious and try and diagnose what’s wrong because I came away with like 2 really important things that are gonna Improve All of my emails moving forward. Um and my messaging.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, yeah, and I think it’s so like you wouldn’t have been able to realize those things and get to the point where you’re like oh shorter emails and this messaging if you didn’t go through the process and do it a different way first and that is that the biggest thing that that people don’t realize is like I Feel like sometimes people treat marketinging as like this is my one shot again if I don’t do this right? Then I’m screwed and it’s like that’s not the way it is. It’s like this is your first of a hundred shots and you will get there so you really did Experience My core value of like marketing always works. It’s just a matter of when and it’s a constant refinement. So since you started making those optimizations, has that helped you go towards more progress and better feedback and getting some calls booked.
Heather
Um, yes, and no so like I said, like the email today that went out is kind of a meaningful one more. So for my podcast than for the client stuff but the other thing that I’ve realized that you actually mentioned in a different podcast episode um was just. How much it was important to like serve your existing clients and how many of your um, clientele kind of came through referrals and so I had been tracking. You know the people who are signing up where are they coming from and for me, it’s really been you know directories referrals from other therapists and I actually get a lot of return clients too. Um, and sometimes then clients refer each other sometimes with sex I’m like, are they going to do as many referrals with their friends? These other industries. Maybe maybe not um I definitely get some but probably not as many as I got before I specialized in sex therapy. Um, so I can kind of go Back to basics a little bit with that while working on getting the clickthrough rate and the messaging to be more consistent and clear and so then I think I’ll go back and do um, actually think I might do like a challenge or a boot camp next time which which is also nice because.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah. Right? Yeah and it gets easier every time because you repeat the process like you went through the process of creating and launching a new funnel but you can repeat that every time and it does get a little faster. It’s how I can live launch every month at this point with the process. Yeah.
Heather
I still have those templates from you from the course that I can go back and access to do that? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s amazing.
Emily Hirsh
It’s a team process dialed in but it really is the same process every time you just change the wrapping paper or the experience a little bit and you refine and optimize as you go.
Heather
Yeah, and and I will do webinars still I’ll say that too I think what I’m realizing though and you also have mentioned this at various points is that based either on the economy or people just being so overloaded with things that sometimes longer funnels will work and so I’m like I like yeah Idea of having maybe even like a monthly shorter webinar. Um, and then I did because I did get some feedback that mine was a little bit long and then maybe also doing like a maybe quarterly I don’t know like 3 day boot camp or something like that where people can go a little bit more in depth and kind of get more value up.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, yeah, and you’ll learn as you go with the feedback of what works and what didn’t and and what to do more of and what to try. So yeah, that’s perfect. Um, one thing I did want to ask just out of curiosity because I think this is so important and you know like you listen to my podcast and everybody on here knows I’m so like anti-template and how important it is that people bring their own messaging and their own spin into it. So talk to me about the experience like I did give a lot of templates. But then I was also like you guys better change these and you better take your messaging work that you did in week one and make it your own for it to work and so How was that for you like did you feel like you had moments where you’re like oh I know my audience would be into this or I’m going to shift it then you brought that into what you were doing.
Heather
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate what you just said because um I changed the templates but looking back I think I really should have just looked at here’s the type of content Emily is putting in and I need to just totally rewrite it in my own words. You know? So it’s more like you know attention getting hook at the beginning or you know, share something positive and and instead of like oh I’m just going to change a few words here and there because I did I went through and I changed some words but but then also even realizing which some of this is trial and error. Um. My audience is just more engaged with shorter emails. So like you know, a lot of sales emails are longer and I realized you know or thought Okay, that’s what I need to do then. But everyone’s audience is going to be different so sometimes it is just testing things out.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, absolutely yeah and I think I think that’s like an important lesson as you start to realize like the importance of trusting your own got in your own connection to your audience which is kind of the magic in business. It’s like that’s the thing that nobody else can do and it’s something you know that I do but I can give you the foundation and the important principles and the starting point but everybody in order to create that like real success. You’ve got to bring in your unique spin your magic a little bit into the mix and that’s the combination that works.
Heather
Yep so that’s the other piece I’ve been working on is sort of identifying my voice a bit more so I had also signed up for a copywriting course. So just what are the phrases that I tend to use, what are the you know words that really sound like me. Um, training chat GPT a bit to learn my voice and describe it by like kind of going through and picking emails like oh I like how I come across here like let’s use this as a model so that’s all stuff I’ve been working on. Yeah.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, love it all right? My last question is just you’ve been through kind of like college boot camp of marketing with me and so somebody who hasn’t gone through that level of like understanding the pieces and here’s the steps kind of where you were before. Based on your experience like what you and what you learned what advice would you give that version of you like two months ago
Heather
Yeah, um I think you kind of said it a little bit like this is not like oh if I Just do this one thing and I do it right? like this is going to solve like all my marketing issues. It’s like if this will give you a very good Start. You know So I think you have to realize that Like It’s constantly iterating you know and it’s constantly learning and also that there’s actually a lot of value and quote unquote failure. That’s been kind of my big takeaway is like instead of being you know so devastated which like maybe you’re allowed like a few days of that. But. You know that it’s like there’s value in that you know for me to learn how to get my open rate app what needs work on my messaging. Um, that people maybe need more from me and more clarity from me before they’re ready to book a call like that’s actually really huge and helpful.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, and 1 thing I think that if we were to touch base in like 3 to six months that you don’t even see yet. It’s going to be the foundation that you’re building the audience of your podcast your email list emailing them consistently. Sometimes it takes time for that momentum to kick in. And so I think also you’ll start to have people that will be like oh I was you know on that webinar four months ago and now I’m going to book a call and so that’s another reason like yes, sticking with it to optimize but then sticking with it to just make the goal consistency of content and lead generation. Because if that’s your ideal customer. You can’t go wrong like eventually you will win with that because that’s an asset to your business and so sometimes I’ve noticed that like this six month Mark seems to be a point where people kind of pick a new Like level because they’ve consistently grown and connected with their list that long and while you’re doing that. You’re also practicing how to talk to your audience like what content. What to say and you can only get better from here and so I think too like that’s something that you’ll start to see and I’ve seen with clients that come in that like From zero to six months and then at six months they’re like oh I’m starting to have a win from someone who joined my list in Month Two who’s now signing up for my program. So I think the consistency is huge and I do say that a lot of like make consistency your goal consistently growing your audience growing your list and as long as those are your ideal customer. It’s just a matter of time until that pays off because as long as you serve them with your offer like you can’t really lose with that.
Heather
Right? right? That’s true and you know I’ve seen that with my return clients. I’ve seen that when I’m emailing and when I’m publishing my podcast you know one of them who recently returned. Cited that she replied to one of my emails. That’s how she got in touch with me and then she mentioned my podcast being part of when she knew she needed to reach out. So Yeah I was like okay this stuff does work. Yeah yeah.
Emily Hirsh
Yeah, yeah, it does just a long game. It’s a long game too and it’s constant optimization. Um, amazing. Well, where should anybody listening go to find more about your business? Um, and you.
Heather
Yeah, thank you. They can check out the Ask A Sex Therapist podcast and they can also find me at heathershannon.com.
Emily Hirsh
Awesome! Well thank you for your time today and I’m excited to continue to see your journey unfold. I know we’ll get you into either essential or elite soon too and then we can bring you back on and have like a six month update or something. So yeah, it would be cool.
Heather
I’ll keep you posted. Yeah yeah, that would be awesome, cool all right. Love it. Thanks Emily.
Emily Hirsh
All right? Thank you so much Heather.